Gay troops can serve openly in the armed forces without harming the military's ability to fight, the Pentagon's top leaders said yesterday, declaring the 17-year-old "don't ask, don't tell" law should be scrapped and pointing to a new survey to show most troops won't mind.
President Obama, citing the troop poll, urged the Senate to repeal the ban before adjourning in the next few weeks. Sen. Jeanne Shaheen, a Democrat from New Hampshire, supports a repeal and appeared with other senators last week at a press conference devoted to decrying the policy. A spokesperson for Republican Judd Gregg, New Hampshire's other senator, said Gregg would not have a statement on the matter last night.
There is still no indication GOP objections can be overcome with just a few weeks left in the post-election lame-duck session. Still, the survey did put new pressure on Republican opponents, led by Sen. John McCain, who say efforts to repeal the law are politically motivated and dangerous at a time of two wars.
Defense Secretary Robert Gates said the ban on openly gay military service "requires people to lie," and he called for quick Senate action.
"We spend a lot of time in the military talking about integrity and honor and values. Telling the truth is a pretty important value in that scale," Gates said as he released the Pentagon study showing that most people currently in uniform don't care about the ban.
Senate Democrats plan to force a vote in December. Senate Republicans were generally silent following release of the Pentagon recommendations for repealing the ban.
Although historic, yesterday's recommendation that the military for the first time allow openly gay people came with a caveat that also frustrates many supporters of repeal. Gates wants an indefinite grace period while the Pentagon prepares for the policy change and phases it in.
"It would be unwise to push ahead with full implementation of repeal before more can be done to prepare the force, in particular those ground combat specialties and units, for what could be a disruptive and disorienting change," Gates said.
Critics led by McCain say the Pentagon's report doesn't address risks to morale and fighting mettle. Gates countered: "I obviously have a lot of admiration and respect for Senator McCain, but in this respect I think that he's mistaken."
Obama has called it a top priority to repeal the 1993 law that bans openly gay service. But gay rights groups have complained that he and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid have done too little to see it through, focusing their postelection efforts instead on tax cuts and a nuclear arms treaty with Russia before Republicans gain congressional strength when lawmakers return in January.
In the report, the study's co-chairmen, Pentagon General Counsel Jeh Johnson and Army Gen. Carter Ham, wrote, "We are both convinced that our military can do this, even during this time of war."
Gates said he didn't think the Pentagon would have to rewrite its regulations on housing, benefits or fraternization to accommodate gays if they were allowed to serve openly.
A defense policy bill that would overturn the law - pending certification by the Pentagon and the president that doing so wouldn't hurt the military's ability to fight - has languished in the Senate since it passed the House this spring.
In the meantime, a federal judge ordered the Pentagon to stop enforcing the law because it was unconstitutional. The Obama administration is appealing that decision.
"Given the present circumstances, those that choose not to act legislatively are rolling the dice that this policy will not be abruptly overturned by the courts," Gates said.
White House press secretary Robert Gibbs said repealing the ban was discussed during a two-hour meeting yesterday between Obama and lawmakers and was the sole focus of a session Monday with the military service chiefs. He declined to provide more details. (next page »)
The survey sent to a few selected troops is flawed as it never actually asked the troops if they favored overturning DADT. There is not the support for any overturn that homosexuals would like you to believe.
And we have one angry homosexual, Pfc. Bradley Manning who is the suspect behind the sharing of the secret documents with WikiLeaks, putting soldiers in further danger and embarrassing many top country leaders.
to vote
what an ironic name you have since you clearly seem to believe in oppressing those who don't hold your own views.
to vote
Each lifestyle lives with a moral code they believe is right!
I take no position on the argument, I say live and let live. Both Heterosexuals and Homosexuals have no monopoly on morals. Each lifestyle lives with their moral code that they believe is right.
I have served and I work with homosexuals and lesbians both in the Army and in the workplace. I have no issues with the lifestyle and we have always treated each other with respect in the workplace and off-site as well. At times I have defended my gay co-workers due to some forms of bigotry I have observed in the workplace. Not that I defended the lifestyle, but I defended the person as a human being.
But I also believe it is my right as to which lifestyle I choose and support, and I chose Heterosexual, my choice, my lifestyle, period!
When I hear the argument gays have a higher incident rate of domestic violence or child molestation, I begin to wonder, you know that old saying, let he who is without sin cast the first stone. From what I have been reading in the papers lately, that argument holds no water. Heterosexuals are just as guilty, if not more, of the same accusations made against the Gay Community.
Each lifestyle lives with a moral code that they believe is right. And I believe each has that right to live their moral code while they are here on Earth. For in the next world, we will all be judged by a higher authority for the morals we have lived by in this great Republic of ours.
to vote
From where?
How?
Do heterosexuals "come out" about their sexuality. What about asexual people, do they "come out" about their sexuality?
What is the purpose besides saying: "there I did it and now you know". Throwing up agenda and personal lifestyle in another persons face is really not necessary.
What will be next? Holding hands in battle?
to vote
Are heterosexuals harrassed and vilified bcause of their sexual orientation? Are heterosexuals asked to lie about their true identity to family, friends, et al? Are heterosexuals denied housing or employment because of who they are?
Your ignorance on this issue is truly astounding.
to vote
Growl!
I have been harassed a lesbian women at work and was discriminated against by a lesbian boss, so yes, homosexuals like anyone else can be discriminatory.
I don't tell my family anything about my relationships or sexual preferences or sexual practices-they don't want to know and it is private.
I believe that heterosexuals have been denied employment by homosexual HR people. I know one company which hires an inordinate number of homosexual employees, more than most companies and the hiring manager is a homosexual. So yes there are unfair practices everywhere out there perpetuated by both heterosexuals and homosexuals.
And another thing about discrimination. I find affirmative action to be discriminatory; in fact, it is reverse discrimination and yes I have been the victim of preferences being told that they really wanted a _______________ in that position. So, please don't lecture me or anyone about discrimination.
Your ignorance of the fact that it happens on both sides of the coin is truly expected and astounding!
to vote
good comeback....NOT. You take one or two ISOLATED cases and try to equate that to State approved discrimination......pathetic.
to vote
Discrimination is out there in all aspects of the workplace. There are companies with a large homosexual workforce and it is very hostile to be employed there. There are companies which are boys clubs and there are companies which are female centric.
There is also affirmative action where you are discriminated against as a white Anglo Saxon male. It is commonplace. If you apply for jobs on sites like Careerbuilder, companies ask your ethnicity. Is that not a way to discriminate against one more populous group over another? Yes.
So listen buddy, don't say that people don't understand about discrimination. It is all over the place and generally companies are sensitive to gays and lesbians because they do not want any trouble in the workplace. HR makes sure of that anyway. You are over blowing a perception to make your point.
As for gay marriage being a civil right. Well the jury is still out on that one. Polls show that it is not in the mainstream as far as acceptance is concerned.
Pathetic, huh? Don't think so pal.
to vote
Sorry Ori, you just don't get it. You try obfuscation and misdirection, but it is painfully obvious that you just don't have a clue as to the discrimination to which homosexuals are subjected. It is currently legal in 27 States to fire someone because they are gay.
and yes, Pathetic, very much so.
ps. I am not your buddy, nor your pal.
to vote
choosing your own mate, as a consenting adult, IS a civil right. And if you're judging what to allow the minority to do based on what the majority thinks then Thomas Jefferson would be very disappointed in you. The whole point of a republic with a constitution is to guarantee that individuals will not have to worry about the majority, or anyone else, oppressing them. Otherwise we could simply get a majority of Americans to vote and say that slavery is reinstated and it would be so. If the majority ruled there is no end to what could be done just as long as we had a majority vote. One good example would be Germany electing a certain leader that caused a lot of trouble back in the 30's and 40's.
to vote
Point out a few facts.
1. These are Americans who want to serve our country.
2. A gay man or woman can put a bullet through a Jihadist's skull at 1000m the same as anyone else.
3. Countless gay men and women have served our nation with honor and distinction.
4. We have service men and women who have had multiple deployments. (see #1)
5. We have called up reservists and in some cases inactive reservists. (again see #1)
6. Many of today's youth are oblivious that we are even in a state of war. (x3 see #1)
My opinion, See #1 !
Nhdriver
to vote
If they want to serve, let them serve. It is a volunteer military.
to vote
Do we need to know if they prefer boxers or briefs? Do we need to know a soldiers preference in food or dental habits? I don't think so. To my way of thinking this is a personal life and not for coast to coast broadcast during military service hours.
to vote
I bet they'd be happy not to have to keep challenging the world about their personal life but people just won't let them do that will they? If they kept silent then, of course, all the rights they are fighting for would just magically appear.
to vote
It's not a matter of them broadcasting it but that they no longer have to keep it a secret. You don't mind them sitting on the front lines risking their lives for our freedom do you? Then how about it being ok to say "I'm gay".
to vote
Throws the Kitty some Catnip !!!!!!!!!!!
Ahh.....Woof, Woof, Woof!!!
to vote
Hey Big Dog,
chat with you later!
to vote
boxers v briefs, coke v pepsi, gay v straight.
They should all be allowed to serve!
Except for PC users . . . everybody knows Macs are way better!
to vote
...taken over the world. C'mon over to the Darkside. We have better parties!!
to vote
....our parties are virus and worm free!!
to vote
That's why I use Fire Fox :)
to vote
I never served so it really is not my issue. I thank people whe did serve who gave me the choice not to serve.
to vote
What about the scenario where you have a gay soldier who is closeted but serves with distinction who now wants to come out (we've heard a number of these). While no one knew (but I'm sure some suspected) he was gay he was a model soldier. Now that he pronounces his sexuality he is dishonorably discharged. Nothing has changed with the gay soldier, only the attitude of his (so-called) comrades. So who has the problem here?
to vote
you should consider getting NEUTERED, Mr. Murdough....
to vote
Kudos to you Elle2!
to vote
The issue isn't whether gays can serve (because they do, have and will) only whether they can admit it or not. Wouldn't the military be served better if soldiers could be truthful with each other? Is it better to wonder if the guy next to you likes boys or to know for sure? I also wonder about incidental gay sex by men who otherwise consider themselves straight--or should we assume that no American soldiers would ever stoop to that level no matter how long they've gone without sex or how pent up they might feel?
This is one of those issues that will be resolved eventually and we will look back and wonder what we were thinking when we made such a big deal about it. Let them serve as they are and let's get on with it..
to vote
".... should we assume that no American soldiers would ever stoop to that level no matter how long they've gone without sex or how pent up they might feel?"
Well, "jezzmund", same question for you as for so many other comenters today - have you ever served in the military? Do you know what you're talking about?
I suppose there are always a few exceptions but the vast majority of straight soldiers and sailors don't "walk on the wild side" when they're deployed for a long time and get "testy". I believe the overwhelming majority, well, "pleasure themselves" instead. When I was delpoyed to the Middle East for a year, I didn't find myself bunking down with a comrade when I neded relief.
to vote
The point is that being gay is not necessarily all or nothing. There are some men who will take what they can get, even if it involves another man. In many cultures it's not even considered gay if you are the man on "top". So where do we draw the line on who is gay and who is not? But I guess my lack of military experience invalidates my opinion, so feel free to ignore it.
to vote
Your opinion is valid, but it is based on your limited experience. I spent nearly 23 years in the military. From what I experienced, military people generally have no problem serving side by side with gays. But they don't want to live in close quarters with them looking at it almost as an invasion of privacy.
If you have one, would you want to send your daughter to college, and have her be forced to share a dorm room with a male? Would she feel comfortable undressing and showering in front of him?
to vote
not necessarily invalidated. But military combat experience is different from any other "normal" real-world job. It's not just a matter of having a certain skill set. Those who haven't actually served under these conditions just don't really understand. There must be absolute confidence and trust between all members of a squad, platoon, whatever. I'm just saying, changing a law overnihght and saying - presto! live with it - may not be a good thing to do in this situation. I was being a little sarcastic before but, honestly, I think phasing this in with plenty of advance preparation ("counseling"?) would be a safer way to go.
BTW, I don't oppose gays in the military. It's the "change management" proces in a highly unique situation requiring the levels of trust and confiedence I mentioned that concerns me. Too many good ideas are introduced poorly.
to vote
I understand what you say about phasing in, but isn't that what 17 years of DADT was about? When Clinton first proposed allowing gays to serve openly it was opposed for exactly the reason you state--that it would be jarring to switch overnight. DADT was a compromise which was intended to let gays serve without fear of discharge as long as they didn't announce their sexuality. So everyone knew they were there. Again, is it really better not to know for sure (especially when you mention the trust factor)?
to vote
It's telling the strongest opposition comes from the front-line combat troops, the Army and the Marines. Since these are THE front-line guys, this should be considered before acting too swiftly.
to vote
I am a proud member of a very Marine family. Most of the men in my family are Marines including my grandfathers, uncles, nephews, and father, who I learned later in life was gay. He was a decorated drill sergent who fought in two wars. None of the Marines in my family are against serving with openly gay men/women. My son's best-friend is now back in Afganistan for a second tour. He also has no problem serving with gay men and women and told us he already does and has, even at Camp Leatherneck and has had no problem with it whatsoever. I think it's really the ultra-Christian Marines and soldiers who have the issue and it's purely religious.
to vote
It's ironic, then, that the front line combat troops, especially the Marines, are supposed to be the bravest and fiercest of soldiers, yet they wimp out at the thought of having a gay soldier in their unit? That's cowardice. People who are afraid of serving with openly gay soldiers are too cowardly to be in the military to begin with.
to vote
when, and in which branch of the service, did you perform your military service, devilsAdvocate. Do you know anything about the front line? Cowardice. Yuck yuck - tell that directly to a Marine!
Stick with watching "The View" instead of shooting your mouth off.
to vote
The few, the proud, the brainwashed.
Stinkin' jarheads.
to vote
It's telling the strongest opposition comes from the front-line combat troops, the Army and the Marines. Since these are THE front-line guys, this should be considered before acting too swiftly.
to vote
I would rather have homosexuals fighting wars for Israel. Straight White men and women should be at home making more White babies and raising their families.
to vote
:-)
Fly Characteristics:
The maggot grows to be about 1/2 inch (12.5 mm) long and is a Disease Carrier. The fly is often a carrier of diseases, such as typhoid fever, cholera, dysentery, and anthrax. The fly transmits diseases by carrying disease organisms onto food. It picks up disease organisms on its leg hairs or eats them and then regurgitates them onto food (in the process of liquefying solid food).
to vote
Heil Hitler...sounds more like a Nazi baby farm.....
to vote
I guess you want homosexuals fighting for Israel because "gays are sissies and they can't fight good" so that will lead to the "downfall of the Jewish Race" huh Ryan?
I guess that you don't care about the overpopulation of the planet either 'cause you apparently want all white people to "stay at home" (i.e. collect welfare and not contribute to but rather become a drain on our economy) and squirt out a bunch of kids that our planet's resources can ill-afford to handle.
What a great world it will be when there are no people on the planet except for ignorant, inbred, lazy, fat, white people.
to vote
is a bigot that shouldn't be showing his ignorance on here if he ever expects to hold office in the Statehouse. I'm not sure why his ego lets him care-take the underprivileged children his job requires. Why would his employers risk the well-being of these children with him at the helm?
Ryan Murdough, you are a racist and should be ashamed of yourself. If your parents brought you up this way then now is the time to break the cycle of prejudice. This attitude of hostility toward different races is unhealthy and needs to end. This society will not permit this behavior in this day and age.
Grow up.
to vote
Ryan Murdough will never hold public office. His views are all over the Internet. He has also probably ruined any chance of a career, especially the way employers do background checks on potential employees these days and home owners check out private contractors. He is probably lucky the have the job that he does.
to vote
cuz reality TV and talk shows would not be the same without our white trash comrades reproducing.
to vote
You have no respect for anyone who has and is serving this country. All you care about is multiplying the white race. Why don't you be more productive with your time and do something good rather then spread your evil hateful thoughts. So are you saying that if you are any other race you should fight for this country but white people should stay home? Psycho babble! It's about time gays can come out in the military.
to vote
You are so messed up!
to vote