White House press secretary Jay Carney last week caught my eye when he talked about members of Congress, currently vocal about the deficit, who were on Capitol Hill over the past decade and voted for unpaid large tax cuts but "put two wars on the credit card without paying for them."
That last phrase reflected words used in 2007 by several House Democrats who wanted to institute a war surtax to pay for the then-increasing costs of U.S. activities in Iraq and Afghanistan.
These days, one of them, Rep. Jim McGovern of Massachusetts, believes such a levy should be on the agenda of the debt-reduction "supercommittee."
"These wars ought to be paid for and not put on a credit card so that our kids will have to pay for this in the future," McGovern said in a recent telephone interview. "It's morally wrong for members of Congress to call for support of our soldiers and then not ask the rest of us to pay for it . . . or have it left to the poor and middle-income and seniors to bear the sacrifice along with our soldiers and their families. That's wrong."
More than $1 trillion already has been added to the deficit by expenditures generated by Iraq and Afghanistan, the first wars undertaken by U.S. presidents since the War of 1812 that have not been financed in part by a special tax. There were three taxes instituted to pay for the Civil War.
In the Spanish-American War, political leaders felt compelled to pay for most war costs because it was a war of choice, not compulsion.
World War I saw a debate about sharing the cost with future generations. The Washington Post wrote at the time, " 'Pay as you go' is the reply of those who insist that present-day taxpayers shall carry the whole burden of present and future preparedness."
No one complained about the heavy new taxes during the years of fighting in World War II and even in the postwar period, when funds, such as those that financed the Marshall Plan, helped pay for reconstruction of Europe. And even though many of those taxes were still in place when the Korean War broke out, Congress still passed new taxes in 1950 and 1951 to help pay for that conflict.
For the Vietnam War, even though President Lyndon Johnson had said the country could have "guns and butter" for a time, in 1968 Congress passed a 10 percent surcharge, which meant 10 percent of owed income tax was added to the bill to pay for the war.
The Congressional Budget Office this year estimated the total costs of Afghanistan and Iraq, projected out to 2017, could reach $2.4 trillion, if you include $705 billion in interest for the money borrowed to finance them.
A 10 percent tax surcharge, similar to the one during the Vietnam War, would bring in roughly $112 billion if applied in 2012, according to Alan Viard, a scholar at the American Enterprise Institute and former senior economist at the Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas. That would just about cover the expected $116 billion for war costs in 2012.
Although Viard said he was not endorsing such a step, he said the surtax would not affect the 40 percent of American households that pay no taxes at all and would add just 1.1 percent to rates of those who do pay taxes.
When McGovern and Reps. David Obey of Wisconsin and the late John Murtha of Pennsylvania suggested a 2 percent surcharge for middle-income taxpayers and up to 15 percent for the wealthiest four years ago, even the House Democratic leadership did not support them.
In 2009, when President Obama proposed his surge of 30,000 troops for Afghanistan and Obey again proposed a surtax, "it got no traction," McGovern said. McGovern said he recently brought it up in a Democratic caucus session with the president but "did not get a direct answer."
Given the current concern about the deficit and finding a balanced way into the future, McGovern argued, "I think the White House should take a look at this and it should be back on the table for the supercommittee." (next page »)
Well the comments section has once again bypassed the actual article and gone directly to rhetorical stupidity. I don't think what's being proposed here is particularly radical. There wouldn't a need for a law mandating a war tax if our leaders were responsible. As the article laid out, war has historically been viewed as a shared sacrifice. This changed in the last decade when the administration had to reconcile its views on low taxation and expansive defense spending. To be fair, I think the reason Bush kept the wars off budget was simply because he thought they would be over quickly. All of the planning for Iraq indicated that the administration expected a quick victory, not one that would aggregate costs for a decade. That being said, these actions fall in line with our political culture which promises everything and asks nothing. If we are going to make the commitment to go to war we should at least be able to make the commitment to pay for it.
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http://civic.moveon.org/standwithwarren/?rc=standwithwarren_letter.fb.v2.g1
email it to all your friends?
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What we need is a reality check. We can't do everything we want without paying for it. Repeal the Bush Tax Cuts NOW. Bring the troops home NOW.
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that we have a tax problem and not a spending problem?
The real question is not if there is enough money in the USA to cure the problem, it's if there is enough money on the planet.
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I see no "length limits" mentioned in the discussion guidelines.
Alas, you've chopped the pithiest 2 lines of my whole comment.
Sad Gaia is sad.
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The post violates the Discussion Guidelines.
comment exceeds length limits
Suppose... I start digging a hole. I dig, and I dig, making it deeper and deeper. While I'm digging and flinging the dirt out of the hole, several dump trucks arrive and cart the flung dirt away for special purposes.... say... to build fortifications to protect our armies that have invaded another country. Or to build a golf course for a rich client... you get the idea. The dirt gets spent on a number of projects - some may have been in the best interest of the country, some not. Some necessary, some not.
After some more digging, I find I'm in a hole that I can't get out of until someone puts some dirt back in (hopefully not on top of me). You look around at the measley piles of dirt left, and you say, "there's not enough dirt left to fill the hole - we should not have spent all that dirt, because now we can't fill the hole. Yeah, you're right.
However, my real mistake here was that I should never have allowed my dirt to be taken away for free. I should have made sure that for every truckload of soil taken away, I was going to get back some sand, or rocks or compost to keep that hole from getting too deep to climb out ofl.
Yes, spending got us into the situation, but we would not be in that hole if we'd had adequate taxation to pay for it all. Now that we're in the hole, simply cutting spending (stopping the digging) is never going to solve the problem. We need fill. And we need a lot of it. We need the taxes that should have been in place before the spending started, plus some extra to pay for the interest.
(cont)
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to save money. I think there are better targets for saving money than your hobbyhorse of "Safe Routes to School": http://www.saferoutespartnership.org/media/file/school_bus_cuts_national...
This one, for instance, will save a lot more than yours:
http://www.cdi.org/program/issue/document.cfm?DocumentID=4582&IssueID=22...
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The other guy, Millennia, used to cry the same old tune when it comes to our childrens safety. As a matter of fact it was word for word if you look at the former posts from both posters that live in the same town..... humm....
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had many of the same themes and wordings as well. What are the odds? Itsamillennialist?
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A war tax. We need a war tax so that we can spend SS money AND war tax money, and still have a 15 trillion dollar debt.
How about something new? How about we charge other countries for the protection our military is providing them so we can pay down our debt?
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"How about we charge other countries for the protection our military is providing them so we can pay down our debt?" - at least for the cost of providing military defense of the flow of foreign oil. Or, it might be even better if we charged the oil companies for it.
Here's another good idea:
http://civic.moveon.org/standwithwarren/?rc=standwithwarren_letter.fb.v2.g1
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You mean as opposed to giving that money away in the form of income tax cuts for the wealthy?
Regarding having other nations pay for the "protection" we provide: Would that make us mercenaries or shakedown artists?
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I know of NO income tax cuts for the wealthy? I do remember an income tax for all taxpayers
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First, bear in mind that incomes at the upper levels (everything above roughly $250,000) have soared over the last 2 to 3 decades, while wages and salaries much below that number have stayed flat or declined. While giving everyone the same percentage tax cut sounds fair, in practice it means that those at the very top of the pyramid receive a tax cut each year they really don't need ( since their incomes have skyrocketed, they have ample disposable income).
Keeping the numbers simple, assume a 40% tax rate on taxable income of $50,000.,$500,000. and $5,000,000. The respective tax bills are $20,000., $200,000., and $2,000,000. A 5% cut in the respective tax bills works out to cuts of $1000., $10,000. and $100,000.
In essence, the argument that the Bush cuts disproportionately benefited the rich stems from the fact that the income gap between the rich and everyone else has widened dramatically over the last 2 decades. To add still more money to their accounts, especially in a time of budget constraints and war, flies in the face of our tradition of progressive taxation.
Further compounding the unfairness is the fact that much of the "surplus" that existed in 2001 was the result of Social Security tax revenues. So it was collected only from income up to about $106,000, and intended for the SS trust fund, not the purses of the super-rich.
Finally, whatever "supply side" arguments are made in defense of the cuts (that they spurred investment and job growth, and ultimately paid for themselves) do not hold up. The tax cuts did not pay for themselves.
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We LOVE wars!!!!! YEAH!!!!
Uh oh . . . but we HATE TAXES!!!!!! BOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!
This is truly an existential crisis . . .
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Trusting democrats not to raise taxes is akin to Charlie Brown trusting that Lucy will not yank away the football again.
The democrats have only 1 solution to everything - raise Taxes
Maybe they should look at cutting stuff like the following:
"The U.S. Department of Agriculture is paying $112 million in tax money to farmers and ranchers in 11 Western states to restore the habitat of the Sage Grouse, a bird that has not been listed as either threatened or endangered under the federal Endangered Species law because the government says there are too many of them."
I am sure there are plenty more of these examples - can a liberal even name one? - I doubt it
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the issue at hand--change the subject. Bush was the only president in history who went to war at the same time he lowered tax rates, and in the process managed to turn a surplus (largely one of SS monies) into a deficit. And you're talking about the sage grouse. Nice try. Have another whack at it. No charge.
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until Obama..How many kinetic whatevers are we in now? And Obama turned a deficit into a crisis.
Nice try...get yourself a Bush pinata.
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Here's most of the debt increase so far under Obama:
Interest Obama has paid, mostly on the debt he inherited...$1,200,000,000.000
Wars started under Bush and left unfinished.............................200,000,000,000
Stimulus because of crash under Bush.....................................780,000,000,000
Bush tax cuts since 1/1/09........................................................500,000,000,000
Bush prescription drug benefit....................................................40,000,000,000
Unemployment benefits due to Bush crash..............................300,000,000,000
Total.....................................................................................$3,020,000,000,000
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which is a $ trillion dollar plus war of choice we didn't need to wage. I suspect you'd have been one of the first to howl had he simply withdrawn from both wars. And if you're referring to Libya, that one's looking pretty good right now--the Europeans did most of the heavy lifting, and a hated dictator is going down. And Obama did try (albeit halfheartedly) to raise taxes. The howls of indignation and outrage from deficit hawk-oprites such as yourself still reverberate on here.
And even though it must be "Groundhog Day" every day in Conservatopia, lest we forget: the financial meltdown and Great Recession, like 9/11, happened during Bush's watch/ reign of error. So one more time with the facts: the bulk of the "deficit" is due to Bush's spending on wars, a prescription drug plan/ tax cuts, and the effects of the worst economic downturn since 1929-30.
http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3490
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was 5.7 T in 2001
in 2009 it was 9.7 T
in 2011 it is 14.7 T
Looks like the bulk of the "debt" is due to Obama.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-500803_162-4486228-500803.html
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The effects of bad policy decisions, combined with the economic collapse have a ripple effect that had little to do with anything Obama did or didn't do. Yes, a goodly portion of the debt happened on Obama's watch, but much of it would have accrued whether Obama or McCain was in charge.
Once more, from the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities:
"The events and policies that pushed deficits to these high levels in the near term were, for the most part, not of President Obama’s making. If not for the Bush tax cuts, the deficit-financed wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the effects of the worst recession since the Great Depression (including the cost of policymakers’ actions to combat it), we would not be facing these huge deficits in the near term. By themselves, in fact, the Bush tax cuts and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan will account for almost half of the $20 trillion in debt that, under current policies, the nation will owe by 2019. The stimulus law and financial rescues will account for less than 10 percent of the debt at that time."
But talk of the deficit and debt in the near term is foolish, we need to get people back to work via more stimulus spending, and worry about the debt in the long term. Continued focus on it just plays into the hands of the deficit hawk-oprites such as yourself, who are more than willing to have the jobless rate climb higher, anticipating that it will make retaking the White House easier. Meanwhile, the Recession /tax cut/war induced deficit is a convenient vehicle to attack the New Deal reforms the right has lusted
to repeal.
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You can't kick the debt down the road anymore. You can't not worry about it, and just keep adding trillions to it.
I guess you can keep up the call for more borrowing to stimulate the economy. Good luck with that.
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The extent to which the train wreck that was the financial meltdown and resulting Great Recession, flowed directly from laissez-faire economic policies epitomized by Alan Greenspan. Abetted by 30 years of right-wing rhetoric on the evils of taxes and government , it resulted in mindless tax cuts for the sake of tax cuts, and weakened/co-opted rules for oversight of the banking and finance industry.
In hindsight, the current economic train wreck has a sad inevitability about it--increasingly large speculative booms followed by even larger busts. Throw in the Neo-cons' capture of the nation's foreign policy in Bush 2 and you have manifest the two most unpleasant aspects of American hucksterism--the chance to make big bucks easily and the opportunity to wave the bloody flag with a "splendid little kicka** war" at seemingly little cost (to us at least).
The economy is likely moribund for years, after "conservative" economic and political theory ran it off the rails. But without investment in jobs and 21st century technology, including a new industrial policy that protects those jobs and technologies, our economy will stagnate for even longer. Our nation may see the same unrest and violent outbursts that England has experienced as a result of "austerity" measures like those you call for. The growing chasm in wealth distribution, and the lack of jobs, is a recipe for unrest.
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hard to believe this crowd thinks like they do when facts are so readily available
day 846 without a federal budget
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liberals / progressive / socialists cant name 1 single program they would cut.......and they cant explain why when they had super majorities in congress they didnt get any of the stuff done that they complain about......HMMMMMMM
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Your point about the Sage Grouse is valid but not one progressive will comment on it because they know that it is valid and illustrates the issue....we have a spending problem.
Safe Routes to School, under NH DOT is another program which needs to be cut. The federal Department of Education is yet another and knowing a woman who worked there, they perform study after study and the same studies over and over again.
Here is a report from the GAO showing where billions could be cut. 345 pages of wasted government spending and where are the liberals on this one? They are silent as they trust government explicitly to do the right things when all government does is waste money.
Yet, no progressive will read this or comment on it because, they know it is the truth and they really don't care as much about cutting spending as they do about redistribution of wealth.
http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d11318sp.pdf
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