Concord

Bus backer wary of light rail plans

He says project could end Boston Express
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If a high-speed train can take commuters from Concord to Boston, will anyone still ride the bus?

That question weighs heavily on the mind of Jim Jalbert, president of the Boston Express bus system. State officials say they are confident that bus and rail service can coexist and complement one another. But Jalbert is less sure. He thinks the state must pay more attention to coordinating rail with buses.

"If they just did the rail, Boston Express would go away," Jalbert said. "They can't coexist."

Peter Burling, chairman of the Rail Transit Authority, stressed that buses are an important part of the state's plan. "Jim hasn't got it yet," Burling said. "If you have bus and rail, your use of both systems is going to go up. . . . The notion that people will somehow choose either/or between bus and train just misses the interconnectivity of the whole design."

But Jalbert said that interconnectivity has not been a part of state discussions. "I'm dumbfounded the state would suggest that there's been an ongoing dialogue about integrated bus and rail in this project," Jalbert said. "There's never been a conversation."

The state Department of Transportation will submit the first part of an application to the federal government later this month asking for $300 million in federal stimulus money to construct a passenger rail line between Boston and Concord. The rest of the application will be submitted in October, and the state could find out whether it gets the money by December or January, state officials said.

The federal government is providing $8.5 billion, and states have submitted $101 billion worth of requests, based on pre-applications. New Hampshire will compete with states like California and Illinois. But Burling said he anticipates that billions more of federal transportation money will become available in the coming years, so the project could still go forward even if the state does not get money this year.

"I don't know that the people of the state of New Hampshire have seen this yet as a prospect as doable as it is," Burling said.

As envisioned by transportation officials, the new railway would have four to six stations in New Hampshire, including stops in Nashua, Manchester Airport, downtown Manchester and Concord. It would likely stop in Lowell, Mass., and Woburn, Mass., where it would link up with the Amtrak Downeaster train, and in Boston. Mike Izbicki, executive director of the Rail Transit Authority, said it would take around 95 minutes to get from Concord to North Station in Boston and about 78 minutes to get from Manchester to Boston.

Izbicki envisions 10 to 12 trains a day, running every half hour during rush hours and every 90 minutes during the rest of the day. The trains would run seven days a week, to serve not only commuters but also those going to sporting or cultural events or medical appointments.

Department of Transportation Deputy Commissioner Chris Clement said the state projects ridership of around 3,000 passengers a day during the week, or 822,000 per year between Concord and Boston. In the future, Burling said, the state envisions expanding the line all the way to Montreal. (According to Izbicki, state studies predicted 3,000 to 5,000 trips a day between Manchester and Boston and around 1,000 to 2,000 trips from Concord.)

Meanwhile, Jalbert points out that the bus already runs the route along Interstate 93. Boston Express has run service between Boston and Nashua for two years, and Boston and Manchester for eight months. Concord Coach runs a separate bus system between Concord and Boston.

Boston Express is a partnership of the Department of Transportation, C&J Lines and Concord Coach Lines, which was created with a federal grant to mitigate the environmental impacts of the widening of I-93. State funding paid for the buses and contributed to the bus facilities, and the state also contributed one-fifth of its operating subsidy, with the rest coming from federal money. (next page »)

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I won't ride the Bus

A few years back I used the bus out of Concord to get to Boston Logan Airport for a business trip. The Bus was round trip. The next time I went on the same trip I drove to Boston. My other half drove the car home. On my return to Boston I took the Silver Line to the Blue Line to Wonderland and from there made the connection and drove home. The why is because I was discusted with the neck jerking, stop and go in I-93 traffic, ride in the bus. The bus is my last choice. I'd take a train any day over a bus.
As I mentioned, I used the Silver Line. This is a bus route/ride. Buses and trains don't go everywhere the other one can. Together they can compliment each other. Taxi's come into play also.
If there was a train from Concord to Manchester I would consider using it to get to work. My employer will kick in part of the fair for me to use public transpotation. If I use public transportation my auto insurance cost will be reduced and my auto cost in general. If I save putting 40 of the 75 miles a day I commute to and from work, my car will retain a higher value longer.

mv_jct's picture

go figure...

the buses from Hanover to Manchester dont even stop in Concord - and the buses go right through Concord....go figure

sailmaker's picture

Maybe Jalbert

Can reorganize and provide intercity bus transportation linking NH cities and tows to the Railroad stations?

"Thou art God May you always drink deep May you never be thirsty."

Blackdruid's picture

95 minutes?!

"Executive director of the Rail Transit Authority, said it would take around 95 minutes to get from Concord to North Station in Boston."

What? I can drive there faster than that. And there are all-day parking locations now for $10. Forget buses -- tell me again how this is meaningful competition with automobiles?

If we're going to do this, it has to be done right. It hasn't even been built and already I'm not that interested. It needs to be faster and cheaper than automobile travel -- simple as that. Would I like to see rail in Concord? Sure. But at what cost? The amount of subsidy that will be needed to make this thing survive...the gov't would be better off putting the $ into Fed Highway infrastructure and buying everyone a new Prius, cuz that's how much it will take. Start adding up the billions and do the math.

The Downeaster is "successful." Let me know when it's totally self-sufficient.

concordisgreat's picture

It takes all the numbers to create the true answer.

Mr Jalbert already owns the bus service that runs down I-95 from Portland Maine. He fought tooth and nail against the Downeaster starting up. It delayed the creation of the Downeaster service for several years as the arguments persisted. Once the Downeaster started running he then agreed to coordinate schedules and allow use of Downeaster tickets to pay for rides on his busses. He then abandoned going to the train station at UNH and instead opted to use the park and ride lots on I-95 where his car riders park for free and he pays zero to use. This included the riders that are flying out of Logan Airport which means the state Park and Ride lots on I-95 are often filled for days on end with long term parkers that the state gets nothing for. .

Now he complains about starting up train service to Concord as being the end of his Bus service along the I-93 corridor. He also points out the that his route on I-93 contributes fuel tax revenue to the state. What appears to be left out of the equation is the fact that the state bought and paid for the Express busses he used on I-93 which he gets exclusive use of. He has an exclusive 5 year contract with an automatic 5 year extension. He got the free use of the parking garage on Exit 5 of I-93 plus the service facilities. He leaves out the fact he has been subsidized by the State of New Hampshire to the tune of 26 million dollars. He leaves out the fact that he has left Manchester bus service because he had to pay for the use of the Bus Station in Manchester instead opting to tell the people to get a ride to Exit 5 on I-93 instead where he operates for free. He also leaves out the fact that he is allowed 5 years to make this run profitable. He is also allowed to exclude all competition or if "He" wants to he can allow them but charge them to allow them to use his facility , paid for with state money , and he pockets the money. Multimodal transportation works fine in much of the US and is currently working on the Downeaster corridor but according to Mr Jalbert that is not true.

Now as for the heading about Light Rail I wish some people would read up on what that is. Light rail is the kind of rail vehicles used on the Green Line in Boston and generally the cars do less than 50 MPH and weight in around 100,000 Lbs or less. The route that runs from Boston through Lowell to Nashua , Manchester and Concord is a heavy rail route that will require heavy rail cars that weigh well over 100,000 Lbs each and are very often propelled by a Diesel engine with around 3,600 or greater horsepower. Heavy rail is the commuter rail service run on the tracks out of North Station and South Station in Boston. By the way the route from Boston to Concord is in fact the old Northern route of the Boston and Maine Railroad.
Light Rail http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_rail

cavman35's picture

to co exist

all bus and train commutes are co existing here in Dover and I am sure there were the same concerns then before we had both. People need to lighten up and realize that options are a great and powerful tool.

TreeStevens's picture

Train will make too many stops

I've always been in favor of connecting Concord to Boston by train. I think it would be great for the city. The only problem I see is that according the proposed schedules, it's going to take way too long. Why would I take the train for 90 minutes when I could drive in 60 or 70?

I'd love to see express trips in the morning. Even if I had to drive to Manchester to board.

smhwbldg's picture

60 Minute ride "no"

I had an appointment two weeks ago at the VA Hospital in Jamaica Plain Boston. I left my house in Henniker at 6:40 AM and got to the T stop in Melrose just before 8 AM. That is in the summer with good weather , schools closed and a lot of people on vacation. I drove at times between 70 and 80 MPH in a constant flow of traffic at the same speed. I then took the Orange line into Boston and switched to the Green line to get to the hospital because that is the fastest way. It costs an average of $25.00 a day at a dirt cheap lot to park in Boston while it cost me $5.30 to park at the T stop. If I tried to drive further into downtown Boston it would take almost another hour because I used to work in Boston for years so I have the system down pat as to how long it takes. Seeing as there is no parking at the VA Hospital I did the right thing. Going to Concord and taking the train to North Station and then getting a Green line train is a lot less irritating and a lot more relaxing because I can get work done or just read instead of worrying about the usual multi-car crash and an additional hour delay on I-93 or route 3. We don't even need to talk about how long a ride is in the winter in our typical bad weather or just a good shot of black ice delays.

cavman35's picture

subtract 20 minutes for

subtract 20 minutes for those of us leaving from concord. drive to north station. 69.4 miles. if you can't do that in less than 70 minutes, you're driving substantially slower than the flow of traffic.

there is parking at sullivan square. right off 93.

smhwbldg's picture

Train Yes, Bus No

I would ride rail to Boston instead fo driving myself. I will not take the bus. i think rail is viable option and people will use the system. I grew up about an hour north of NYC (about the same distance from Concord to Boston) and people ride the train in all the time. Where I grew up is much less of urban center than Concord.

concernedforconcord's picture

why in the world

Why would we spend the money for a light rail system to transport people between Concord and Boston? Concord is not a real city and Manchester isn't either. There' s not sufficient population to support it. Amtrak runs from Boston to NYC to Washington D.C. and it loses money every year...and they're real cities with high populations. This is a great example of the fantasyland that liberals live in. Common sense says it will be a financial loser but common sense is not a trait that liberals possess.

LIAMD2's picture

I'm sorry Liam

But you missed this whole conversation that we had on this issue months ago.

First:
The buses are subsidized as well, so don't think that Concord trailways is making money on its own.

Secondly:
The Downeaster from Portland to Boston is a HUGE success. On Red Sox gamedays, the train is full. I actually took the train yesterday from Dover to Old Orchard beach and I was suprised how full the train was (especially since it wasn't a weekend). PEOPLE USE THE TRAINS. You don't have to find and pay for parking. You don't have to use gas. You don't get stuck in traffic.

Thirdly:
During the last quarter, the Downeaster ridership increased more than any other Amtrak route in the country. Do you really think that the same kind of people won't travel from Concord to Boston as the people on the Downeaster?

The buses are full every day in the AM that go to Boston from Concord. Don't you think that the convenience and speed of a train might also succeed?

mbeck's picture

you are sorry...

...and I don't agree with your logic (or lack thereof). If trains were an economically sustainable means of transportation, we would have more train service then we currently do. Take away the government subsidies and there would be even less train travel in the U.S. then there currently is.

LIAMD2's picture

I'm not sorry, mbeck

I must have also missed the posts in which you and your cohorts were clamoring to invest in these rail routes to service all these people who want to travel by rail from Boston to various New England outposts. Do tell where the rest of us can get in on the rail-bed of this great investment opportunity! Thanks.
- C. dog loves hoppin' a freight train and wavin' to the good folk in Folsom Prison as he passes by

C. dog e. doGy's picture

hey dog

I'm sorry dog. I think you left your comprehension skills out in the dog house.

mbeck's picture

I'm glad to report my keen eyesight

detected no mention on your part that any of this was paid in full by the users of said awesome rail service. Pretty dubious, don't you think, mbeck? Remember the old days when railroadin' actually made money, or is this a concept you cannot comprehend?
- C. dog

C. dog e. doGy's picture

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